Another early Graph

[jbcollier]

Vintage ENCAR CHRONOGRAPH Stainless Steel Watch ULTRASONIC SWISS | eBay

This watch is in original condition, on owner, and has not been worn for decades. We are not watch experts. The owner of this watch passed away recently, he was 95 years old. We submitted a video of this watch.

www.ebay.com

 

[JimJupiter]

Just seen. Super interesting to follow the auction. Another grey dial from Canada. Quite interesting too

Predictions?

 

[Joe_A]

The case is closed properly.

 

[JimJupiter]

The case is closed properly.

Close but looks like a pusher and maybe the crown was changed

 

[Joe_A]

The lower pusher is wrong and the crown as well.

The photos are poorly lighted. The crystal is obviously badly scratched and possibly cracked through at the bottom.

Paddle hand lume plots look to be intact.

It looks like the watch is in a bit better shape underneath that crystal than it appears in it's present state.

I know there are some who don't believe in restoration, but to me, this watch is a candidate and in the end it may clean up reasonably well.

Despite a scratched back not unlike some Mark IIIs, the scratches are probably not deeper than the clearly visible serial number.

Another $9,000 watch? Will it's status as a grail raise the price above what its condition would suggest?

It'll be another interesting auction to follow for nine days. Nine bids already from six bidders.

Let me make that seven.

Outbid already by an automatic bid!

 

[JimJupiter]

This one should be well above 10k, since a MK1a should have a bonus as first of the line and it’s unique details. My guess is 14k€.

 

[JimJupiter]

BTW for all following this thread and asking why this MK1a has paddle instead of Gladium hands, please have a look here

How to spot one of 500 Sherpa Graph MK1a?

Often people ask me, what are the differences between a first execution Sherpa Graph, famously used by Stirling Moss and Jim Clark’s racing team, to the later ones and what you have to look at? Sin…

enicar101.com

Nico

 

[SteveHarris]

Absolutely zero chance of this one flying under the radar!

 

[Joe_A]

Absolutely zero chance of this one flying under the radar!

Price is shooting up pretty quickly considering 9 days to go.

It is already up to $4,650.00 with 12 bidders and 17 bids.

 

[Joe_A]

BTW for all following this thread and asking why this MK1a has paddle instead of Gladium hands, please have a look here

How to spot one of 500 Sherpa Graph MK1a?

Often people ask me, what are the differences between a first execution Sherpa Graph, famously used by Stirling Moss and Jim Clark’s racing team, to the later ones and what you have to look at? Sin…

enicar101.com

Nico

Question:

My Ia with the gray dial (actually more like medium pewter) has light pewter colored subdials as does the one up for auction.

On your site you seem to be suggesting the Ia has white subdials.

Does the black dial reference have white subdials whereas the pewter/gray have light pewter subdials generally?

The watch is much prettier or more handsome in person than one ever can experience from a photo.

 

[JimJupiter]

Next time I find time, I will have a look.

btw watch is allready at 8.600$. Wow, that escalated quickly!

I save the pics of the watch here for future generations

 

[JimJupiter]

@Joe: from my current project, I have the dial here. It’s the same finishing. It’s not white, it’s more shiny like you said. There are rumors, even Gold subs exist

 

[HorologyBiology]

Absolutely zero chance of this one flying under the radar!

unlucky mate

 

[Joe_A]

Underneath that badly scratched and cracked crystal, we may hope it looks like this:



Not really light pewter for the subdials, more like a creamy light metallic.

Edit: I really do not "get" the value up to $8,600.00 with 9 days and 12 hours to go?

These rather seemingly pointless early bids won't discourage anyone who wants the watch from bidding in the end, so why not wait until the end and pop in a very high bid hoping that the next highest bidder isn't Marco or me, lol?

 

[Joe_A]

Hope no one minds that I deleted the redundant thread and put Evan's final post in it below:

 

[Joe_A]

One more consolidation

:

I've got my vacuum cleaner (Hoover) out!

 

[Marco]

How would people think about the risk they are taking on the condition and the restoration? The scratched up crystal really makes it difficult to see the condition of the dial. Plus it hasn’t been worn in decades from the description and the function hasn’t been tested.

It isn’t a watch you see often, so I can totally understand ‘stretching’ to pay for it, but difficult to really know what you’re getting here…

 

[Joe_A]

How would people think about the risk they are taking on the condition and the restoration? The scratched up crystal really makes it difficult to see the condition of the dial. Plus it hasn’t been worn in decades from the description and the function hasn’t been tested.

It isn’t a watch you see often, so I can totally understand ‘stretching’ to pay for it, but difficult to really know what you’re getting here…

The condition of the movement is one concern, but probably of a lesser concern than the condition of the dial is for me, Marco. Supposedly, the chrono function works.

Positive signs are that the lume appears complete and the dial lettering below the logo applique looks good. The condition of the tachy ring looks very good. Subdial hands look good, but that is almost always the case. The central paddle hands look "OK" but the photos are so poor, one can't be sure.

Some of the shadows on the dial face are undoubtedly cast by the heavy scratches under poor lighting, but there can also be discoloration and/or blotchiness. If I were to pay the price already established for the watch and end up with a discolored dial, I would not be happy with the purchase. Besides, I already have a similar watch in superb condition.

As they say on the show Shark Tank, "For these reasons I am out!"

When one sees a watch poorly photographed, one is tempted to believe that the seller simply is inept or does not know any better or is careless. It can also be true that a seller knows that poor photos hide flaws.

 

[HorologyBiology]

The condition of the movement is one concern, but probably of a lesser concern than the condition of the dial is for me, Marco. Supposedly, the chrono function works.

Positive signs are that the lume appears complete and the dial lettering below the logo applique looks good. The condition of the tachy ring looks very good. Subdial hands look good, but that is almost always the case. The central paddle hands look "OK" but the photos are so poor, one can't be sure.

Some of the shadows on the dial face are undoubtedly cast by the heavy scratches under poor lighting, but there can also be discoloration and/or blotchiness. If I were to pay the price already established for the watch and end up with a discolored dial, I would not be happy with the purchase. Besides, I already have a similar watch in superb condition.

As they say on the show Shark Tank, "For these reasons I am out!"

When one sees a watch poorly photographed, one is tempted to believe that the seller simply is inept or does not know any better or is careless. It can also be true that a seller knows that poor photos hide flaws.

The movement should be a high concern if it is supposed to be correct. The early Graph val 72's had different balance wheels and non moveable stud holders. Also no AR on the mainplate I believe.

Given the sellers history, description and what else they are selling I think this is legit and its another case of they know they have something but they don't fully know what they have

The dial looks pretty good as the scratches blatantly look like crystal scratches as they move in different pics.
I wouldn't be even bothered about the lume as there are a few professional people out there that will do a relume that good and vintage looking that you would never be able to tell the difference. Fact.

Even the pusher is doable. The crown however is the most problematic finding the right size without the

But after saying all of this it's eBay. So it's try before you buy! As much as this disgusts me we all know eBay would side with the buyer in any situation.

 

[Joe_A]

The movement should be a high concern if it is supposed to be correct. The early Graph val 72's had different balance wheels and non moveable stud holders. Also no AR on the mainplate I believe.

<snip>

I agree about concern for the movement Matt . . .

What I meant is that I feel it unlikely that the movement is not legit, assuming the story of the 95 year-old single owner being correct.

How many of us are willing to spend a lot of money on a watch without seeing the movement?

Edit: Also though, we don't want people who don't know what they are doing or don't have the proper tool to try and open an EPSA case.

Yes, until the Mark IIa and Mark IIb transition, the early movements all had fixed stud carriers:



My Ia above (not the best of photos)

My Id below:



I've seen some Mark IIb watches with mobile stud carriers.

Note the U.S. import code on the balance cock for the Id.