Sherpa Graph Mark I? Gray and White

[Joe_A]

I communicated with the seller today a couple of times as well and shared the information with Gopher.

Seems like a nice guy and the watch is beautiful.

The inside of the case back is stamped 9-67 and Gopher has the S/N.

No question that the watch is beautiful and if the case back does not bother one, then there is nothing else to be bothered about!

Congrats to Gopher.

~ Joe

 

[Gopher]

Appreciate it, Joe!

An all-white MKII with MKIV caseback also sold a few.months ago for well north of this one, so that helped. Tough to read too much into these isolated instances, however.

 

[Gopher]

Sounds like sound advice. Thank you for the tip.

You're in luck: There have been a relatively high number for sale of late, more than I have seen in my years of collecting Enicars. Others on here withore experience have said the same.

 

[JimJupiter]

Congrats Gopher! I was talking to to seller too, to get get the serial, but then saw the caseback. Really nice dude! On the service papers you can also see the wrong „serial“ but that indicates the wrong caseback too as there is written 9-67.

Regarding the reference it’s for sure a Mk1c-d. The b was without the tachy text on the tachyscale.

loveley Watch with a small Problem. I think you did very good!

Nico

 

[JimJupiter]

Btw the Seller found the watch on a Polish Flea market in 2016. Interesting background. Could be from a collector though, since I doubt there were any Sherpa Graph available in Poland in the 60s....despite the Super Dive Polish Navy. The wrong caseback would also cover the "collector" theory I guess.

Nico

 

[Gopher]

Thanks, Nico!

How do you tell a MK1b from a MK1c and a MK1d? In reading your great site, I see the following description of the tachy for a MK1b:
"The inner tachy scale of the MK Ib is just found in white color but with at least three letterings: 1.) “Tachymetre Base 1000” ; 2.). No Tachy, No base; 3.) Tachymetre 300."

Given the above, I do not see how to distinguish except that if there is no "tachy" lettering, it must be a Mk1b. The question then is what makes a MK1c and a MK1d?

 

[JimJupiter]

Reminder to myself: update the page. During the last 2 years I added a lot of new watches to the list and the more watches, the clearer the picture of course. I have currently 23 Mk1b watches in my list, three of them have a tachy 1000 bezel and 2 a tachy 300 bezel. Both are to my knowledge not in original state anymore (different hands, diffferent dial).
So my assumption is, a MK1b needs to have a bezel without the word tachymeter. Transition of course allways can happen, but that needs to be close to the serial range end or start ( the two with the 300 are at the start of the batch which makes it even more unlikely).

The difference between the MK1c and d is probably just the serial at the back and the date inside the caseback (4/62 vs. 6/62). Sorry for still not finishing the MK1d page

To be more clear: Since almost every grey dial Sherpa Graph is called "Jim Clark", Jim Clarks watch was without the "Tachymeter" text for sure. If you have Tachymeter on the scale, its not a Jim Clark

 

[Gopher]

Thanks!

This makes sense about the MK1b. I still do not see any noticeable or material distinction between the c and d. Why break them up into different Marks if merely by serial number unless there are noticeable (hands, dial, tachy, case, movement, etc.) differences? Maybe I am just missing the differences?

Especially given the small number of watches in these years.

This is the closest I have seen or ever will see to a true Jim Clark!

 

[JimJupiter]

Its not all about hands and dials. and the caseback is a defintiv difference But I just looked again in the data...and there seems to be another difference. Small vs. big logo on the dial. My wife is not home the next few days, so I promise to update the MK1d page over the weekend, allright ?

 

[Gopher]

Sounds good.

I am not following. All MK1 versions should have the old-style cloverleaf caseback, no? And all MK1 versions should have the big old-style logo, right?

Just trying to understand the distinction. It feels to me we are trying to make a distinction without a difference if merely breaking up serial ranges without physical differences.

 

[JimJupiter]

All have the Cloverleaf logo. Thats it. Even cases are different (MK1a vs. rest), handsets are different, Dial variations are different, movement details are different, tachy scales are different. Every MK1x has a detail, that differs from the rest.

 

[Joe_A]

Its not all about hands and dials. and the caseback is a defintiv difference But I just looked again in the data...and there seems to be another difference. Small vs. big logo on the dial. My wife is not home the next few days, so I promise to update the MK1d page over the weekend, allright ?

Up until today, the Mark Id does not have the old-style Enicar logo, but rather, a small applied Saturn followed by Enicar, Sherpa and Graph each on its own line. Has your view on that changed?

Below are a couple in the "Id" serial number range starting with mine. Each have 1308 BaNCH "cloverleaf" backs:

S/N 562134, Date 6-62

S/N 562032, Date 6-62

S/N 562166, No inside case snapshot

S/N obscured but with a 1308 BaNCH case back, no inside case snapshot

I have not found any with the old-style Enicar logo.

Cheers,

Joe

Edit: It is possible that the transition from Radium to Tritium occurred between the Mark Ic and the Mark Id as well?

 

[JimJupiter]

Nope, thats exactly what I meant with Big vs. Small logo.

 

[Joe_A]

I have some other snapshots of other Mark I versions including a Ib with the word Tachymetre on it, but since it is from Vintageur, probably Nico has it as well and perhaps the bezel was changed?

In any case, I do not want to polute the thread further with more content unrelated to Gopher's new and fine acquisition!

 

[Gopher]

Hi, Joe.

No polluting going on here! Your additional info. is super helpful (at least to me). It helped identify a significant difference between the C and D versions (logo) that I was just missing. Thank you! It is always great to have photos as you showed to clarify a point. I am visual.

For point of reference, the one I bought has the big old-style logo, so that points to a MKIc (or possibly a MKIb if ones with "Tachy" bezels are included as Joe asks above)? If one must be free of "Tachy" in the bezel then it must be a C? If only we had the proper serial #.

It will be great to see more snapshots as you mention. I am always looking to learn more.

 

[JimJupiter]

Unfortunately not that easy The grey dials allways have a big logo...also in the "d" batch. Its the exception from the rule

 

[Gopher]

Who knew (except you)! Maybe grey dials should be their own Mark!

 

[vintageanimation]

I have what may be a silly question. How do we know that the caseback is the only thing that is from a MK4. Is it possible that the case itself is from a MK4? I read somewhere in one of the threads that it would be difficult to screw a MK4 caseback to a MK3 case. Has anyone who owns several different SC models ever tried to screw a MK4 caseback to a MK1 case?

 

[vintageanimation]

If all the cases are the same with the exception of the caseback, then I would venture it wouldn't matter one way or the other..

 

[Joe_A]

I have what may be a silly question. How do we know that the caseback is the only thing that is from a MK4. Is it possible that the case itself is from a MK4? I read somewhere in one of the threads that it would be difficult to screw a MK4 caseback to a MK3 case. Has anyone who owns several different SC models ever tried to screw a MK4 caseback to a MK1 case?

I have just three Sherpa Graphs and a tool to safely open the case sans adding any new scratches. One of these days not far off I will try a case back exchange. I have a Ia, a Id and a III.

On a side note, all the later Gallet MC 12H watches use 37.5 mm cases that appear to the naked eye to be identical, but I have tried taking a case back from at least one of them and trying it on another and it was not exchangeable. I have four MC-12H watches and one MC-45M where the cases look alike. In the one atttempt to swap, the difference in diameter may have been a mm or less, just enough not to fit.

In the case of the bayonet EPSA cases, I think the odds fovoring interchangeability may be a bit better. At least we don't have to consider thread diameter and pitch.

We'll see.