Questions about Supertest that was my grandfather's

[smltwnrckr]

Hello all,

I have been lurking here a while, and decided to post as I am still a bit vexed by this watch.

I'm not a high-end watch collector, but I have amassed a small collection of affordable pieces and know a little bit about watches in general. After my aunt's recent passing I was given three vintage watches that belonged to my grandfather including this, pictures posted below.

Obviously, the most unique thing about it is the name on the dial under the Enicar space logo. Apparently he wore it quite a bit, because the case back is quite worn and it is hard to see all that is written on the back in terms of model info. What I can make out on it include: Seapearl, Incacloc, 100/301 BAPS, Stainless Steel Back, Ultrasonic, Automatic. There also appears to be something that looks like "Brevet" with a swiss cross and then "31496" or something close.

I have seen similar watches, but nothing quite the same. I would love some info from the experts, between the case back info I could get and the dial photos. Largely the approximate date it was manufactured would be nice, movement info, as well as any info about its place in the company's history. Just would like to know a little more about this little watch, if possible.

Thanks in advance!

 

[DubbelUIam]

Best advice to buy and read the Enicar book of Martijn vd Ven, Time for a change, there you will find the answers.

 

[Stephanerunge]

H.E.Green is that the name of your family or something like that?
Nice watch by the way.

 

[smltwnrckr]

H.E.Green is that the name of your family or something like that?
Nice watch by the way.

Yes, that was my grandfather's name - H.E. were his initials, Green his last name. My understanding is that he as a manager for a department store, through the mid 70s basically, so I inherited a small handful of legit vintage wrist watches that he owned. This is the only time I've ever seen something like this, where there is a custom addition to the dial with a name in place of the brand name.

Thanks thus far to all for input. Any other help is appreciated. I have enjoyed learning about Enicar since I came into this watch.

 

[DubbelUIam]

B = Bayonet, Epsa, Seapearlcase, 300 m, 5 Atm waterproof
A = Automatic
P = Plaque plated 20 micron
S = Sweep second Hand p.219 (of the Enicar Bible, first edition.)
Incabloc = shock protection for balance wheel, p. 207, note 2.

Ultrasonic = ultrasonic waves Enicar cleaning system p 214-215

Brevet 314962 = Epsa supercompressor system,p 83

Isolated Saturn = p 49, first used in early sixties

Supertest = Own certification system of Enicar p 220-221

Home made Enicar movement, AR 1125 inside . Page 63 and 220-221


30 = number of jewels.

The name of your grandfather at the dial ( in stead of the back case) is unique, one of a kind, never seen before.

I think your watch is from 1961 or 1962.



Above you see my own "Dads" watch also from the same time 1962, with the divided saturn, p 49, and a box from that area. Advice: Buy the Enicar bible book from Martijn vd Ven and discover the world of vintage Enicar.

 

[smltwnrckr]

B = Bayonet, Epsa, Seapearlcase, 300 m, 5 Atm waterproof
A = Automatic
P = Plaque plated 20 micron
S = Sweep second Hand p.219 (of the Enicar Bible, first edition.)
Incabloc = shock protection for balance wheel, p. 207, note 2.

Ultrasonic = ultrasonic waves Enicar cleaning system p 214-215

Brevet 314962 = Epsa supercompressor system,p 83

Isolated Saturn = p 49, first used in early sixties

Supertest = Own certification system of Enicar p 220-221

Home made Enicar movement, AR 1125 inside . Page 63 and 220-221


30 = number of jewels.

The name of your grandfather at the dial ( in stead of the back case) is unique, one of a kind, never seen before.

I think your watch is from 1961 or 1962.
View attachment 5560
View attachment 5561

Above you see my own "Dads" watch also from the same time 1962, with the divided saturn, p 49, and a box from that area. Advice: Buy the Enicar bible book from Martijn vd Ven and discover the world of vintage Enicar.

Thank you for the info, and also thanks to the others for feedback thus far. I have considered getting a copy of the book, though I am not sure if it is worth it for a single watch as opposed to if I continue to pursue collecting enicars. time will tell I think.

One of the puzzles I'm trying to figure out now is how and why my grandfather's name made it onto the dial. Seems like the kind of thing you would have done at the factory, and thus would need to have it custom done. According to my mother, he didn't retire til the 70s. And even then, it seems rarer than a simple retirement to have a name custom set into the dial in place of the company name. Perhaps that info would be in the book, thus I am still considering picking up a copy.

 

[hurmen]

I've read the book from cover to cover more than once, but I don't remember anything about Enicar doing custom dials for individuals.
There's a segment about Enicar as a supplier for private labels with Birks and Rideau labeled watches as examples. That's about it.

 

[jbcollier]

I have seen a number of Enicar dials with private companies or individual logos/names added.

 

[smltwnrckr]

I have seen a number of Enicar dials with private companies or individual logos/names added.

Thanks for this info. Do you have photos or examples? Or any insight as to how these custom names were added? Was it something that was available to retail customers, or something more insider or corporate related. My grandfather was a department store manager during the 50s and 60s, and also worked in watches for a while. Perhaps there was some sort of incentive for salesmen or reps?

Anyways, anyone with knowledge or insight please keep commenting if you have one. This has become a bit of a mystery I am trying to unravel. I am looking around if there are any out there for a library copy of the book, as I am a researcher who has access to multiple library loan services.

 

[jbcollier]

Here's one example I dug up quickly on ebay:

 

[smltwnrckr]

Here's one example I dug up quickly on ebay:

Thank you for posting this. However, it is unclear to me what the custom signature / logo is?

I have come across two examples of what appears to be some custom addition to a dial.

One is this...

Honestly, I wonder if it is real/authentic.

Second is this...

In both cases, the addition is a picture, not the name of the individual. So I would be interested in examples of an individual's name being put on a dial in place of the Enicar name, if there is any.

I am interested in figuring out how/why this would be done. No one in my family knew this watch existed until about a year ago, and none of them can give an idea as to why he would have received a custom watch in the early 60s.

 

[jbcollier]

The swirl is the logo of a distributor (maybe South American?). There are others. Heathways distributed Divers with their name added to the dial as did other companies (see recent posts). Jewellers used to offer custom engraving, etc for their wares. Still do but it was more extensive back then. Is it common for a watch? No. Is it unheard of? No. Does it make the watch more valuable? No. That is, unless your name is H. E. Green, I suppose, or Mohammed Ali, Dearest Lizzie (Queen Elizabeth 2), etc.

There was an African distributorship/factory. They made lots of "dictator" dials which were handed out to soldiers instead of pay (which they then had to extort from the local populace). Bit of a flippant exaggeration but not by much.

 

[smltwnrckr]

The swirl is the logo of a distributor (maybe South American?). There are others. Heathways distributed Divers with their name added to the dial as did other companies (see recent posts). Jewellers used to offer custom engraving, etc for their wares. Still do but it was more extensive back then. Is it common for a watch? No. Is it unheard of? No. Does it make the watch more valuable? No. That is, unless your name is H. E. Green, I suppose, or Mohammed Ali, Dearest Lizzie (Queen Elizabeth 2), etc.

There was an African distributorship/factory. They made lots of "dictator" dials which were handed out to soldiers instead of pay (which they then had to extort from the local populace). Bit of a flippant exaggeration but not by much.

Thank you for the clarification on the logo - the swirl is the distributor. That makes some sense, as the distributor's logo signifies something in addition to the text and iconography on the dial related to the brand/movement/etc. However, at least in this case the icon is in addition to the other standard items on the dial. Have you come across an example of an Enicar like this one where you have a name on the dial in place of the brand name? It seems like a custom change like this would be done at the factory, not the jeweler, as the name is placed on the dial in lieu of what otherwise would be standard text.

I am not looking for this information for monetary value. I assume that name actually hurts the market value of the watch more than it improves it. But as this watch has sentimental value, as it belonged to my grandfather who I never knew, I am deeply curious how and why his name is on it. While I originally assumed that perhaps this was a custom option available to retail customers, I have not seen any other examples of this and it sounds like such an option is quite rare. So there might be another explanation, which has personal interest for me.

 

[hurmen]

The swirl is the logo of a distributor (maybe South American?). There are others. Heathways distributed Divers with their name added to the dial as did other companies (see recent posts). Jewellers used to offer custom engraving, etc for their wares. Still do but it was more extensive back then. Is it common for a watch? No. Is it unheard of? No. Does it make the watch more valuable? No. That is, unless your name is H. E. Green, I suppose, or Mohammed Ali, Dearest Lizzie (Queen Elizabeth 2), etc.

I've seen those swirls on dials before. Usually they refer to the mainspring inside, not some distributor.