Mark III Graph on "The Bay" 08-21 available again 05-22

[Joe_A]

Here's another good Mark III Graph.

enicar sherpa graph markII B | eBay

Entdecken Sie enicar sherpa graph markII B in der großen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

S/N 941199 - Properly stamped 12-66

This one is comparable to my own watch S/N 9413xx, also 12-66.

Price is over $2000 above the one S. Song just sold that is in superior condition.

Dial and hands look good. Another white-tipped central seconds probably to cover a little rust.

Back is in fair to good shape.

Movement looks excellent.

 

[SteveHarris]

He has it listed as a IIB for some reason when it's actually one of the last Mark III's produced. I bought a nice Mark II off him, so seller is good

 

[Hugger69]

Here's another good Mark III Graph.

enicar sherpa graph markII B | eBay

Entdecken Sie enicar sherpa graph markII B in der großen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

S/N 941199 - Properly stamped 12-66

This one is comparable to my own watch S/N 9413xx, also 12-66.

Price is over $2000 above the one S. Song just sold that is in superior condition.

Dial and hands look good. Another white-tipped central seconds probably to cover a little rust.

Back is in fair to good shape.

Movement looks excellent.

View attachment 3207

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My MKIII has 940 xxx and also 12-66 inside the lid but the white tip on the chrono hand is original as I understand it from Nico’s site, not to cover rust!

I’ve almost never seen a lollipop hand on theses watches that didn’t have a white tip?
My sun hands are also white and as I understand it they could be either unpainted, white or black?

 

[Hugger69]

It then another interesting quest popped yesterday when I was looking into a MK 1a here in Sweden, how was the dial prepared when the watch was built on these Graphs?

Where they painted first and then they added the time markers and the Enicar logo or was the markers and logo pressed in already before the dial got painted??

 

[SteveHarris]

As far as I'm aware the logo and dial markers were all applied, so added afterwards.

In answer to your other question, there's definitely lots that don't have white tips on the chrono hands. I have one and another sold on ebay last night in about 2 hours after being listed: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194277555628

 

[Hugger69]

As far as I'm aware the logo and dial markers were all applied, so added afterwards.

In answer to your other question, there's definitely lots that don't have white tips on the chrono hands. I have one and another sold on ebay last night in about 2 hours after being listed: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194277555628

That was my impression too, Steve...but I'm not sure and how do we find out for sure? Nico had the impression that the dials where made as a whole piece with markers and logo as one piece....
When i look at my dial through magnifying lens it appears to be as you say but some people have seen paint on the sides of the markers on a couple of Graph dials....maybe they are repainted then?

Well , you see...Enicar never stops fascinate you!
But what i really was after was that the comment that the wipe's was painted white to hide rust isn't correct, even though it can happens in some cases! My chronohand has, as far as I can tell, never been messed with since it was new from factory!

 

[SteveHarris]

It'd be very illogical to apply the logo and markers first and then paint. Talk about making your job harder! Perhaps those ones have been touched up maybe or just a messy watchmaker leaving something he shouldn't have.

I have no reason to believe that the white tipped chrono hands aren't correct. They occur far too often for them not to be really.

 

[Hugger69]

It'd be very illogical to apply the logo and markers first and then paint. Talk about making your job harder! Perhaps those ones have been touched up maybe or just a messy watchmaker leaving something he shouldn't have.

I have no reason to believe that the white tipped chrono hands aren't correct. They occur far too often for them not to be really.

I totally agree with you Steve, on both points!

It was the comment above "Another white-tipped central seconds probably to cover a little rust." that made me write from the beginning..

 

[SteveHarris]

Ah OK. I'm not aware of that being a thing and for there being quite a few it would have to be a standard practice for watchmakers to do that (I've not personally heard of it).

The Mark III I posted above is interesting though. Listed at $10k and sold within a couple of hours.

 

[Joe_A]

The hands on the Sherpa Graph rust up pretty easily and it is not unusual to see that the lollipop has been painted white at the tip.

All it takes to rust the hands is exposure to condensation which may be caused by going in and out of an air conditioned building on a hot and humid day.

I've illustrated this with my own Mark III.

Before I purchased mine from Ancienne in Barcelona, all the rusted hands were painted white:



The tip of the central seconds was left as it was:



I replaced the hands as they were obtained through our members Lars and Yves:



Less than two weeks after I got the watch back and after just one (and only one) incident of fogging up, one can see that the dampened paddles stained the lume:



A cautionary tale. ;-)

 

[SteveHarris]

Interesting!

 

[Hugger69]

The hands on the Sherpa Graph rust up pretty easily and it is not unusual to see that the lollipop has been painted white at the tip.

All it takes to rust the hands is exposure to condensation which may be caused by going in and out of an air conditioned building on a hot and humid day.

I've illustrated this with my own Mark III.

Before I purchased mine from Ancienne in Barcelona, all the rusted hands were painted white:

View attachment 3248

The tip of the central seconds was left as it was:

View attachment 3249

I replaced the hands as they were obtained through our members Lars and Yves:

View attachment 3251

Less than two weeks after I got the watch back and after just one (and only one) incident of fogging up, one can see that the dampened paddles stained the lume:

View attachment 3250

A cautionary tale. ;-)

Yes, you’ve warned us before and showed how quickly the process is!

Still the white tip of the chronohand is original so a lot of Graphs and not only a method to cover rust!

 

[Joe_A]

Yes, you’ve warned us before and showed how quickly the process is!

Still the white tip of the chronohand is original so a lot of Graphs and not only a method to cover rust!

My opinion differs from yours, but it's just an opinion

I doubt that the tips were painted white at the factory.

 

[Joe_A]

EDIT:

Sooner or later, this was bound to happen. ;-)

I accidentally edited Steve's post adding my words to it without noticing and then I thought I was responding so I deleted Steve's original words. What a dummy!

Please accept my apology Steve & Company. Correct as needed, please.

Steve wasn't sure about the issue of the white-tipped central seconds lollipop hand, but he may have such an NOS hand with a white tip.

I am happy to alter my opinion in that, I see that it is plausible that there were some lollipop hands prepared that were white tipped.

I haven't seen more than a couple yet, and that - and the fact the the hands rust pretty easily - led to my formulating an opinion that they were more likely to have been painted during a subsequent service of the watch.

It's all good. ;-)

 

[Hugger69]

This is turning out like a really interesting discussion and no one seems to have the correct answer....

This is the only original brochure I could find after a quick search and its not on a Graph but it uses the same lollipop chronohand on a Jet Graph and it clearly has the white tip. Picture is from 1969 from Nicos site, https://enicar101.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/brochure_1969_germany.pdf


I have on my side almost only seen the white tip lollipop chronohand out there on MK III on eBay, C24 and other sites but maybe we can agree so far that both versions probably existed from factory, among with the white, black or non colored sub hands!?

 

[JimJupiter]

i think the white tip was factory made too. Have seen to many white tips, to say these are all painted later.
Regarding the pressed or applied marker topic I think our friend Martin @martink is the best to ask. I recall a chat with him, where he explained that these dials where all pressed at once. Pretty amazing job if true, cause it really looks applied to me too on first sight.

cheers nico

 

[JimJupiter]

@martink i hope it’s ok when publishing what you wrote in short:

„by the way, I found out how the. original dials by Enicar were manufactured: actually, the applied indizes for forged in one piece with the dial.
This is why they cannot be lost “

 

[Hugger69]

@martink i hope it’s ok when publishing what you wrote in short:

„by the way, I found out how the. original dials by Enicar were manufactured: actually, the applied indizes for forged in one piece with the dial.
This is why they cannot be lost “

Yes, but the dial we’re already painted then or….?

 

[Hugger69]

Another MKIII how I’m used to see them, this one from Chrono24:
C24

 

[Joe_A]

I guess you must be used to seeing them with the incorrect (early) crown and third-party oversize pushers?

I'm "pulling your leg," Hakan.

Of course I know you were referring to the white-tipped central lollipop seconds.

I now accept that sometimes these central seconds hands were white-tipped from the factory and sometimes they were simply left unpainted to rust. ;-)