Looking for a lollipop seconds hand for my Mark III Graph . . .

Joe_A

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
As some may know, my Sherpa Graph had rusty hands at one time, but a nice dial. This is apparently not all that unusual as reading the article below will demonstrate:

Enicar Sherpa Graph Service and Restoration

I was lucky enough to acquire NOS, OEM hours and minutes hands. I'm thinking that, when I am able to find a lollipop seconds hand, I'll put the watch in for a full service. Right now it is running well, gaining less than 5 seconds a day, but with a slightly low amplitude in the 250 degree range.

Photos attached.

Note to Steve: I may have been breaking your forum. The last couple of times I attempted to upload photos. the process stopped at 70% for the first one and then the connection indicated a halt. After backing out and trying to get back in again, the site was unreachable from my end for a period of time. Let's try adding the photos again.

Edit the 2nd: It was image size, either in pixels or file size, that caused an issue. These images are smaller.
 

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SteveHarris

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Cheers for the heads up Joe. The max file size should be 5mb's. Probably the server we sit on having a hiccup.

I don't have any spare but will keep an eye open for you (y)
 

Joe_A

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
Still on the hunt . . .

There appears to be two types of lollipop seconds out there, one with a ring of bare metal around the red dot and one where the red dot is solid, sans metal ring.

As far as I know, the Mark III watch did not leave the factory with a solid red dot seconds hand.

In another thread, I mentioned that, for a brief time, I had what I now understand to be a "put together" Mark III originally purchased from A Collected Man. They (giving them the benefit of the doubt) and I did not know the difference between the genuine article and one made up of parts.

After returning the watch, the seller casually mentioned that the watch was in very bad shape when they found it, but that they had SHWR restore it - and as restorations go, they did do a good job. I often wondered what happened to the watch and just yesterday I discovered by accident how it was disposed of:


It was Nico who had pointed out to tyro me that the S/N 1262347 showed that the case back was from a Mark IV watch.

Also note that the seconds hand was a replacement:

408

Nice looking watch. I'd loved to have kept it if the case-back matched the rest of the watch and if the seconds hand were original.

Recently, I was offered this hand:

409

It looks much better - brand new actually - in the flesh.

The macro lens highlights things that the naked eye does not see. In natural sunlight, the hand appears smooth and silver in color.

My guess is that the above hand is a genuine hand from another Enicar watch, or else it is an aftermarket replacement and perfectly good to use when there is no other choice, in my opinion.

Over at Nico's site, he has a Jet Graph Mk III with a similar central seconds hand. Whether original or replacement, I do not know:

410



One may also find examples of a solid-center red lollipop on the Mark IV such as here:



So . . .

My search continues . . .

It may well be that my central seconds hand will not be too challenging to restore if I should be unable to find a genuine replacement.

At least, one has no lume material to worry over.

Cheers,

Joe

Edit: Another S.G. Mark IV with solid red lollipop:

 
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SteveHarris

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
Good read thanks Joe.

My MK 3 Jet Graph has the ring around the red dot and not solid. I'm picking up a MK3 Shepra Graph this week which also has the ring of metal around the red dot.

I'll post up some pics when it lands.

Steve
 

Joe_A

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
Steve, glad to read that you found your own Mark III.

It seems more likely than not that the solid red dot is a replacement hand for all but a very few watches, if any.

I note that only the early Mark IV graphs as seen in Google searches have lollipop seconds and these likely came out in 9/67 as far as we know. The Jet Graph Mk III - which may have the solid dot - was introduced in 6/67 according to Nico's site.

In doing a quick Google search this morning for the Sherpa Graph, all of the photos I found of the Mark IV with lollipop central seconds, had solid-dot hands. Of course there are only a very few. Ditto for the few Jet Graphs of the Mk III type one may find.


It's possible that Enicar had a run of full red-dot seconds hands made in early 1967, but it's just as likely that all the solid red-dot seconds hands were replacement hands whether from Enicar or others.
 

SteveHarris

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
Saw this set of hands on ebay and thought of you Joe:

Not great pictures but looks like solid dot.

Steve
 

Joe_A

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
Are they rose gold or is it the lighting?

They are described as Mark I, but they look like Mark III to my eye. The ring around the lollipop has been painted, but this would not be a problem to correct if they are stainless.
 

SteveHarris

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Sherpa
Worth a PM to the seller?

I always marvel and at how people can take such poor quality photos!
 

JimJupiter

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Sherpa
They are rose gold. I have / had some of them. A swiss guy was selling them for around 30€ a few years ago.
 

Joe_A

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Sherpa
They are rose gold. I have / had some of them. A swiss guy was selling them for around 30€ a few years ago.
Thank you, Nico.

I inquired of the seller in fine "Google translate Italian," but did not receive a response. :)

Edit: I assume the item is not properly described as coming from a Sherpa Graph.
 

JimJupiter

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Sherpa
No, those are Garnix hands. Normally they were sold with the minute and hour hands...which, by the way, are shorter than for a Sherpa Graph. Note to myself: I should measure them.

Nico
 

Joe_A

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
I still have not found a Mark IV S.G. with a distinct ring around the lollipop. <shrug>

But . . .

Thanks to a post made by Yves Wenger over at Nico's Vintage Enicar Group, I have this on the way to me:

Yves-2.jpg

I now have a full set of central metal hands to correct the "rusted hands painted white" issue I have had with my Mark III.

I am months away from seeing the end result though. I have a Gallet MC-12H "Jim Clark" over at RGM which is not ready yet but ought to be ready soon. Once the watch is ready, I will head out to Mt. Joy to pick up the Gallet and drop off the Mk III Graph.
 

SteveHarris

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Enicaristi
Sherpa
Excellent Joe (y)

Always hard to take good shots of hands etc without a macro lens.

Looking forward to seeing it on the watch :geek:
 
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