A good-looking Sherpa Graph, but which model is it?

Joe_A

New member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
Seems I have the honor of making the first post in this subforum!

No doubt the watch below is a beautiful watch, currently advertised at Chronocentric:


At first glance, it looks like an "in-between" model watch, not quite a Mark II and not quite a Mark III. I have communicated several times with the owner of the watch and he has not been forthcoming with any part of the serial number which I have requested politely three times.

This ad presents a good opportunity to discuss what may be - or may not be - an "honest watch."

Parts of a Mark III:

The dial is clearly a Mark III dial as one can deduce from the size of the applied Saturn logo.
The central minutes and hours paddle hands are of the shorter Mark III variety and are orange-tipped as expected. The thin stick subdial hands suggest a model that is at least a late Mark IIb, but is more typical of a Mark III.
The photos of the partial movement shot and inside back case shot, clearly indicate a typical Mark III date and movement coloration with mobile stud carrier in evidence.
The back of the case indicates a Mark III Seapearl case back with the ?72/02/?

Parts of an earlier watch, possibly a Mark IIb:

The white tachymetre scale, sans tachymetre word spelled out, suggests a Mark II or earlier watch.
The central seconds hand is almost something, but almost what? All the thin red stick central seconds hands that I have seen belong to a Mark II or earlier watch, but I have not found one yet where the center circle is not also painted red?
The crown: it's had to tell for sure, but it looks like the crown is short as one would expect for an early Graph.

So why have I persisted in requesting the serial number - clearly a six-digit number?

It was on the off-chance that the watch had either a very late Mark IIb S/N or a very early Mark III S/N.

In other words, I was engaging in wishful or "magical" thinking! ;)

Comments welcome.

~ Joe

Edit: Some final thoughts . . .

To someone who is not concerned whether the watch is wholly original or whether it may be a "put together" watch, at the right price, the watch may be attractive and worthy of consideration. To a collector though, this watch must be suspect.

Have I missed anything?

What has bothered me though is that the present owner appears to be deliberately hiding something. He answered each of my questions up to the point where I was insistent upon learning the first four digits of the serial number and then . . . no further response. His final email included: "Feel free to make me your best reasonable offer as this is the best info I can provide about my watch." Best would have included at least a partial S/N!

I think we all feel better when a seller describes a watch fully, pointing out its virtue as well as it's flaws and when the ad is accompanied with a sufficient number of photos to make a decent evaluation. The ad has only one photo in it. The rest of the photos came to me via email. I was able to bring the case back photo into Photoshop to try and highlight the S/N . . . and almost succeeded, but there is not quite enough there to see the first significant digits! ;)
 

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SteveHarris

Administrator
Staff member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
I did see this watch pop up but thought it was quite expensive, so didn't look too closely.

Normally for Graph's I'd try and get some thoughts from Nico aka @JimJupiter. Hopefully he can provide some insight as he has a lot of knowledge on these.

Steve
 

Joe_A

New member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
I did see this watch pop up but thought it was quite expensive, so didn't look too closely.

Normally for Graph's I'd try and get some thoughts from Nico aka @JimJupiter. Hopefully he can provide some insight as he has a lot of knowledge on these.

Steve
Yes, I did ask Nico's opinion as well and the short answer was that he too felt the watch was "a sum of parts."

My thinking was to get the ball rolling on this subforum and to stimulate dialog on what makes for an honest watch (and also an honest listing for a watch.)
 

SteveHarris

Administrator
Staff member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
I think a put together watch is OK for some people and it won't bother them but for us Enicar nerds it would bother us.

Also, the pricing should reflect what it is, so they're way off in my opinion.

I've got some image manipulation software on my PC, so I'll have a go at messing with the image to see if I can get the SN to pop out (y)
 

Joe_A

New member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
Agreed, Steve.

The first Mark III Graph I bought from ACM, I may have kept had I not paid top dollar for the watch, even with a Mark IV back on a Mark III watch. I believe ACM to be a fine and honorable (honourable) small group, but they are leading the market as far as their prices go and if you want something that they have to offer, you'll need to be prepared to pay well above the median. They do know how to sttractively list a watch. Here is the original listing for the one I bought and returned:

Sherpa Graph "Jim Clark" Chronograph 300 Ref.072-02-01

I'm sure the seller in this case knew that I was genuinely interested in the watch, but that knowing the serial number would mean either an offer may follow . . . or I'd lose interest . . . which is what happened. If the watch does not sell in a reasonable time, he may accept an offer significantly less than his asking price.

What appeared to me in the S/N is the 3rd, 4th and 5th numbers were 2-1-2 and the final number could have been anything, but possibly a 6. Oddly enough, there seems to be a "#" stamped over the second numeral. I played around with the image in Photoshop, but could not identify the first two numbers. The Mark III reference number was there, but appeared to be truncated.

It would be interesting if you can see more.

Cheers,

Joe
 

SteveHarris

Administrator
Staff member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
It looks a real mess to be honest with and it's difficult to pull too much out of it...

355
 

Joe_A

New member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
Agreed x 2.

It's odd that the area where one would find the significant digits is damaged.

In any case, a red flag should go up for any of us when one discovers that a seller is appearing to hide something.

I put this thread up as an opportunity to explore a bit . . .

In case the advert goes away, the seller is Gregnic and the fellow's name is Greg Nicolas. I could not find him as a user @ Watchuseek or at Omega Forums, two other places I visit regularly these days. Feel free to delete the seller identification, Steve, if this is something you don't want on your site.

Cheers,

Joe
 
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SteveHarris

Administrator
Staff member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
Nope - exactly the kind of thing we want (y)

He may have nothing to hide but being evasive on important matters like this helps nobody.

Steve
 

JimJupiter

Moderator
Staff member
Enicaristi
Sherpa
908.136 is my best guess for the matching domain. I also think the pics are just edited with Photoshop or something to hide the Serial.
 
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